Saturday, July 4, 2009

You-X Presents: A Conversation Full of Citations for a Little DC's Lexicography

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---“Have you seen DC's?”
---“No,” Matt replies, letting me know he hasn't seen Dennis Cooper's blog today. DC's is a place I've been frequenting pretty much daily since Dennis started it around five years ago. Matt, my younger brother, has been following it and a part of that world for at least two years.
---“It's this cool day on this theater guy Castelucci's works,” I float back.
---A day is whatever Dennis posts, it always has a subject or organizing theme, today being on Robert Castellucci. I go on, “The photos are sort of amazing.”
---I'm staring at the top one, it's a young blond woman who looks to be about to box, her poised to punch arms in front of her chest. Her fists are covered in what looks like shiny metal. All the images from his theater works look like paintings. Every day except Sunday Dennis posts, that is, publishes, what we call a day. I type 'panda?' into the Find box and hit enter to search.
---“Hey,” I start. “You haven't posted on here recently.” I can tell because I don't get any returns for 'panda?', which is Matt's name on DC's. Posting is publishing a comment in the comment section, when not refering to Dennis (at which event it means publishing a day). I start reading the p.s., lots of interesting things happening there.
---“Yeah,” Matt replies.





---“Me neither. I need to,” I add. “I just was reading the p.s., Dennis is looking for someone, lots of someones, to do a day. You should do one on your EP when it's done.” To do a day is to suggest an idea to Dennis and if he approves, which he always will, then it entails putting together whatever you want to for your day. In the past tense it refers to having had a piece posted on DC's. In this case it is sometimes referred to as something you curated. But you wouldn't use that to describe the event yourself.
---The p.s. is a place at the end of the day where Dennis replies to everyone who has posted comments the day before. Dennis also uses this space to alert us to anything he deems important or chat worthy. Right now he's looking for someone to do a day, that is put together a blog post around something or someone, and send it to him. At the end of the day's p.s. is a comment link, this is where the new comments for the day are posted. People have all sorts of conversations there. Also, above the p.s. is the little comments, a place under the last segment of the day preceding the p.s. - people post secret comments here, sort of. This comment section is often neglected by all readers, and posters, except Dennis and those that choose to quietly say something there.
---“Yeah. Whatever happened to doing one on your poetry book 'Secret Single',” he asks.
---“I know, I know. I want to. I still never did the music blog one. The last one I did was on Trevor Brown, and then before that was my giant Japanese Pornography Exploratory thing. Actually yesterday was a back from the dead, it was Jose's Kobo Abe day. The guy who wrote 'Woman in the Dunes'.”





---A back from the dead is a day featuring something from one of DC's earlier blogs that were sadly lost by Blogger. Blogger is the blogging service Dennis uses, it's now owned by Google. The phrase back from the dead was chosen by Dennis.
---“You're hoping he'll do one of yours, huh?”
---“Every single day!” I say and laugh. It's true, I do hope he'll do one of mine.
---“Alan's been doing a lot recently, and Dennis is hoping he'll do more. Maybe it will be guest post central for a while, that could be cool.” A guest post is one done by anyone but Dennis.
---“What are you going to post about?” Matt asks me, wondering what my comment on DC's today will be. A comment on DC's isn't necessarily a commentary on the day itself. It can be but just as often it can be a poem, or dialoge with other posters, or correspondence with Dennis or anyone who frequents there, or basically anything else. And often a comment takes the form of all these things.





---“I don't know. I want to go back and read that SPD, and read the comments. But it was like a three parter, right? I don't even think I'd be able to get through it. I don't want to skim though, maybe I'll just search for 'you-x',” which is my name there though like most people here I'm also known by my real name. “I don't really remember who liked my poems and drawings, well No More Teenage Kicks, and Alan. I remember that. I liked Alan's too,” I pause. “Oh, and I still wanted to tell Dennis how much I enjoyed his last varioso.”
---An SPD is a self-portrait day. These have been going on for years now, they are usually suggested by someone who posts to DC's, that is someone who posts in the comments section, and then if the idea is liked Dennis puts out a call for entries. The entries are open to all, regular commenters, lurkers, and anyone who feels like sending something in. Each SPD has specific criteria, the last one was a response to images from the Thematic Apperception Test. There was a page set up with a number of images from the TAT and then if you wanted to be a part of the day you just had to respond to them, either in a piece of writing, visual art, song, video, anything. A varioso is a type of day Dennis does, titled varioso with a number indicating its sequence in the series, with an assortment of things without any specific theme. These can be items picked by Dennis as well as things submitted by anyone.
---“That was a long time ago,” Matt says.





---“I know, like a week or two,” I say, but it's probably longer. “Also, I wanted to get in on all the recent Cycle talk.” The Cycle is a series of five novels Dennis Cooper wrote, known in full as the George Miles Cycle. It was through these books that many, but not all, of us on his blog came to know Dennis and his work.
---“I think it was longer,” Matt says and I laugh. “So which DL did today?” A DL is a distinguised local, I'm not sure who started using the term, but Dennis uses it whenever refering to work by somebody who is known on the blog.
---“Oh, I think it was Dennis',” I say.
---“The orignal DL,” Matt cracks.
---“Ha,” I laugh. “Yeah, Distinguised Local number one. I think because of his work with Giselle or something,” my words seem to have no direction as I read the p.s., which is usually a few pages long and always delightful. “Did you see someone wants to make 'Jerk' into a movie? She's going to the performance tonight. I can't believe I missed it when it was in Seattle.” Giselle, or Giselle Vienne, is a French theather director Dennis has been collaborating with for the past four years. 'Jerk' is the name of their currently most well known playing piece.
---“I wonder what separates something from being part of Galerie Dennis Cooper, and just being a day like today's,” Matt poses.
---Dennis often does these Galerie Dennis Cooper days, featuring the work of an artist he is interested in. Dennis has been a contributing editor to Artforum for twenty some years and also is incredibly active in the art world.
---“I think maybe the Galerie posts are like curated by Dennis, as an exhibit, whereas the others are more like explorations, like a catalogue essay at an exhibit rather than the exhibit itself.”
---“When was the last slave day?”
---“I don't know. It seems like those escort posts come all the time and then never, but really I think DC does them on a schedule, but I'm so bad at paying attention to those things.” The escort, or slave days, are monthly posts of texts and images curated by Dennis of male escorts which are found on assorted open escort sites.
---“Me too. Did you ever hear back about your book from DC?”





---“No, I should do a phoner. I also want to talk to him about the Other.” I'm talking about a phone call, or a phoner as it's referred to on DC's. The Other refers to love, and the experience of that in relation to someone outside you, but not actually someone. I believe the term orignally comes from Lacanian psychoanalysis, but it's used in a much freer sense here.
---I fade into today's comments. JW Veldhoen writes about his pending divorce, being in debt and possibly taking to the streets, his wordver is 'rents'. That guy always destroys with poignancy. I can't remember my last wordver, except that it was strangely fitting, of course, and sort of funny. A wordver is the captcha generated by Blogger, which sometimes turns up as a really interesting word or phrase fitting to the situation. The word comes from “word” and “verification”.
---Rents. That was Veldhoen's wordver. And he's losing his place and broke or something.”
---“One time I got closer,” Matt says. It's significant because that's also the title of the first book in the Cycle. “What was on htmlgiant?” Htmlgiant is an online literary magazine, that is basically a blog run by a lot of MFA students.
---“I haven't checked, did you see Alan's 'Haut or not' on there?”
---“No, what was it?”
---“Oh I'll show you after I post,” I say.
---“Okay,” Matt says as I begin to finish up notes for a linguistics paper.





---Looking over the jargon used on DC's I'm fascinated by how much it has entered into my daily conversations outside the blog, not just with Matt but with other people I know who frequent the blog or at least have at one point. There are a number of word-formation processes at work, though for the most part they seem to be informal and practical. The name of the space came simply from it being Dennis Cooper's blog, so it became known as DC's, an acronym. I think this also qualifies it as something of an eponym. This acronym is used to refer to not only the blog as a space as well as what's in that space but also to signify if something is from Dennis. Another acronym is “p.s.” which was borrowed from the world of letter writing. This, like all the other acronyms used on DC's, is spoken with each letter pronounced (see also: SPD, DL). There are examples of blending, wordver, derivation, phoner, borrowing, varioso, conversion, post, and surely mutliple processes which are evading me at the moment. The jargon is a mix of things specific to originator of the space (who was the reason we all started congregating there), such as Cycle, as well as words that have formed for functional purposes of this active and unique space of writers, artists, intellectuals, and genuinely friendly individuals of all ages. A lot of the words have a literary connection and seem to at least carry some tropes of the literary and art worlds. But others, such as phoner, seem straight out of lost American slang from the 60s – which they well may be though I've never encountered or used that word outside of DC's. Each word is useful and functional and makes up part of the fabric of one of my favorite places, a place both old and new, avant-garde and somewhat popular, formal and informal.



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p.s. Hey. So it's the unimpeachable writer, recording artist, and distinguished local You-x who welcomes the blog back to full duty with this intricate and wistful exploration of what this place is all about. I'm, of course, feeling honored as hell, and I hope you out there find a place in your heads and hearts for it as well. Thank you kindly, You-x, and thanks to all of you in advance for the amount of your weekend time you'll be spending with it. So, just quickly, everything has gone very well over here in London, I think. It could have a lot less hot and humid, and I could have used much more sleep than I've gotten, but the very good definitely outweighs that bad. I'll tell and show you more about it when I'm 'home' again and have more time on my hands. So, while I was here, I managed to very, very occasionally score a little internet action, and the following p.s. proper constitutes the amount that I was able to read of the comments left while I was gone. The last time I'm able to check -- which is Friday morning as I type -- is as far as I got, and when I finish the interactions, I'll program this post to launch tomorrow (today, Saturday) at the normal time because I won't get any more internet between now and when I'm back in my Paris pad. Thus, addressing you from the near-future of launch time, I'll add that any comments left here within the last 24 hours will be responded to on Monday, okay? Also, I'm kind of quite sleep deprived and dripping sweat at the same time, so please excuse my lack of sharpness and just general zonked out energy here. ** Tomkendall, Pure treat to have been able to see you even that little amount the other night. Thanks a lot, man. ** NB, Well, you're down south or rather southwest now, I guess, and if you check in here, then here's a twangy howdy to you, and if you're sticking to Facebook while you're kicking up Texan dust, I'll try to follow your antics in that realm. Have all the fun you need. ** SYpHA_69, Hey. Well, I don't know those publishing houses except for Soft Skull, of course. I mean, there are a growing gazillion of new indie literary presses of high note too, although maybe you're angling for a particular kind of context? I just mean ideally you could keep sending it out for quite a while if necessary, and make that kind of your hobby or something while you move on to what you want to write next. I wouldn't give up after a handful or rejections. There are just so many possibilities out there, and why not keep fishing with your left hand while your right hand inscribes the new work? ** Jesse Hudson, Hey, pal. ** Colin, Yeah, Pina Bausch is a very big and sad loss. Her work is very important to Gisele, and she's pretty gutted, and the work of Bausch's I saw back in the 80s was definitely among the most startling and powerful theater I've ever seen. Ugh. Well, as I think you came to see 'Jerk' on Wednesday, which technically is tonight as I type this, I will have met you by the time I read this, and since it's given how great that experience is going to be, I'll just say for now how great it was, with details to emerge once I'm post- the momentous occasion. ** JW Veldhoen, Hey. Yeah, I can't go objective on the Phelps gang, like I said. Their shit is too unforgivable to me. If you become their new fearless leader, I'll try to find out if there's any part of my heart that hasn't been scoured yet. Who's DM? I'm spacing out. Oh, Derek, duh. That took me far too many seconds to parse out. So how do you see the distinctions between Bowie and Bolan as your own musical ideas construct themselves? ** David Ehrenstein, Hey, David. Ah, it's good you alerted me to that vegetarian = weak bones thing because I just read the other day how being a vegetarian can help significantly lower your chances of getting quite a number of kinds of cancer, and I was a little in danger of getting too cocky, ha ha. ** David Saa V. Estornell, I've been thinking about you these last days, and hoping you were doing okay. I'm very, very sorry for your loss. Be strong, my friend. ** JoeM, Yeah, Rigby got it backwards. My will leaves everything hereabouts to you. But I seem to still be alive, as far as I can tell. Need I say, if sides needed to be taken, I'm on yours re: the pro-Daily Show vs. meta-anti-FOX. I do have to say FOX's news is about as balanced as a Charles Manson monologue. I'm missing Wimbledon, so I'll take everyone else's word for all of that. ** David, Hey. Richard Stark ... of course I haven't read him. I should really try to go to a bookstore while I'm here. Where I'm staying, at the Institut Francais, which seems to be in a French neighborhood of London, all the bookstores (and restaurants and even souvenier shops) are French! It's like I'm not even here. ** Misanthrope, The heat here is more than a bit much, and the lodgings they've put us in are kind of monastery level lodgings, and the combo is not sleep friendly, but ... I always seem to save my whining for you. Why is that, I wonder? I think it's a good sign, but I apologize anyway. Uh, I think it's too hot here in London to go all JoeM Jr. on you about FOX News and the notion of their straight reporting, but I think you know my schpiel. Yeah, like I said, Wimbledon is escaping me this year. I don't mind Federer so much. I used to not be able to stand him. The French love Federer. When he plays in the French Open, people over there lose sleep worrying he won't win. It's kind of weird. He might as well be French to them. I guess because he speaks fluent French. Soccer the most boring sport?! Dude, I dare you to watch a single cricket match and then come to that same conclusion. ** Flit, Hey, Flister. ** Mark, Ha ha, hey! Oh, the proof sheet looks very interesting. The multiplicity of the opaque/transparent sheet as you used it is most impressive, the range of layered imagery from the Psycho offshoot to the block of ice and everything in between ... kudos, man. Do you have more lined up? ** The Dreadful Flying Glove, Lovely thoughts, my friend. I went to Nudie's shop once on Sunset Blvd. when I was younger than that now. Never bought a thing, though. Stupid kid. ** Kiddiepunk, Sunday! ** Bernard Welt, Buddy, pal of mine, hello. Where's my key to that blousey dream guy's visage? I assume you checked Ubuweb already re: the Akerman doc? I can check to see if it's on DVD in France, if you like? I can only imagine the freshness of the difference when hanging with the Obama appointees. But I'll keep my thoughts backpedaled to that loosey goose sentence because Obama is just a topic I think I'm going to avoid opinionating about around here for fear of triggering land mines for the time being. ** Pisycaca, Hey, you guys. Oh, I think the radio play recording is going to be delayed, so I'll be even freer. ** Clovenskull, I'll see your thanks and quadruple them. ** Rigby, Leave my jism on your coat, if you haven't washed it out yet. Assuming it's not too late, three days from now, something miraculous will happen to your coat, and if you've been a good boy, it might just do something miraculous for you. If not, it'll do something miraculous for ... oh, let's say Oscar B. ** October, Hey, man. Oh, that doesn't sound so good, obviously. A real convergence of difficult stuff. With the girl, yeah, I hear you. Your feelings about her will settle into something that's more coherent, which doesn't help now, and I feel like I'm always telling you to hang in there, but there is this whole thing about time and patience that's a drag when you're on this side of the eventual resolution, and life is too often much more slowly paced than emotion can tolerate, but it's a fucked up no immediate win situation always. Man, I'm just sorry you're having to go through all of that. Steeping in sadness is part of the deal, and I guess that's sometimes the only way to renounce it honestly. Oh, thanks about 'God Jr.' That's really nice of you. I appreciate it a lot. My back is getting back to nearly normal, I think. I won't be picking up any anvils for a while, but it's all right. Lots of respect and support and affection to you, man. ** Erik, Hey, Erik! It's so nice to see you. Is your new doubled up life going well? I have this feeling it is? But tell me. ** Oscar B, So great to meet you. Way, way too brief, but what's started can't be stopped. It was just nothing but a joy. **Alan, Hey, man. I haven't been following the reviews on 'Ugly Man' all that closely, but I think HP is gathering them up for me. The handful I've seen have been pretty good, a couple that seemed to get the work fairly well. A couple of snarky ones, but nothing too vicious. Blake Butler's thing about it via writing re: one of the stories therein on HTMLGIANT has been my favorite. The NYT just gave it what I suppose is a little thumbs up given how 'not their thing' my work is. I guess it's going okay on that front, but I haven't scoured to see what's out there, although I'm sure curiosity will best me soon, and I'll embark on an actual hunt. Hope you had a good week. ** Saint-Amant, Hey! It's very nice to see you, of course. I'm always wondering how you are and what you're doing, working on, etc., etc. Obviously, I think it would be great if you launch that new blog you're talking about. I'd be all over it. Between a severe case of spaciness due to the above mentioned few days of very poor sleep, and the crushing wet, thick heat I'm staggering around in mentally and physically, and the severely limited time I have online right now, I've only been able to read the writing you've posted once and very quickly so far, but I liked it quite immensely. Very rich, very beautiful, and, for whatever it's worth, the style has a curious kind of distant resemblance to the style I'm working with in my cannibal novel, so that was quite interesting for me, and it gives my admiration a kind of close relative knowingness maybe. I don't know. My brain is not shooting out sufficient sparks right now. I like it very much, and I will spend the quality time with it that it deserves when I get back to Paris whereupon my attentions will regain sufficient respectfulness. For now, I'm hugely pleasured and honored to have it. Thank you, Eric. We'll talk more soon, I hope. ** Okay, that's as far as I got before the internet and my schedule and all that stuff took me elsewhere. The rest will be addressed after the weekend, as previously stated. Please do enjoy the local loveliness perpetrated by You-x and reward him with triggered thoughts of some kind. It being Friday where I type, I'm off to investigate certain holographic possibilities offered by a London based special effects company, and then the show happens tonight, and then I'm back to Paris on the morning that this post will appear, and then ... well, weirdly, I might actually go witness the Paris concert of the Britney Spears 'Circus' European tour if a possible, possibly promised free ticket is offered to me. I mean, why not? The yearly Parisian edition of Japan Expo ends on Sunday, and since the JE makes an appearance in my novel-in-progress, I should really take the opportunity to go have another look at the thing, which I'll do if I can manage to drag Yury or someone else along with me. Anyway, that's my weekend ahead roughed out if not foretold. Dig yours. See you Monday.

71 comments:

DavidEhrenstein said...

Lovely ultrapostmodern day today.
Donald Westlake's Richard Stark novels are quite something. They're all quite brief, and in many ways their chapters in a kind of serial. The two most famous film made from them are Point Blank and Made in U.S. A. So the same anti-hero has been played by Lee Marvin and Anna Karina.

And then there's the lesser-known The Split where he's played by Jim Brown.

The "news" s All Michael jackson All The Time, save for yesterday when Caribou Barbie suddenly announced she's stepping down in two weeks from being the Governor of Alaska.

I can see the indictment from my house!

DavidEhrenstein said...

A sad footnote. Thatwoudl have been teriffic.

Bernard Welt said...

It's only 9 am here and I already heard this from a Facebook friend who seems to know this kind of stuff: with almost anybody else, you'd think a governor who abruptly resigns right after a particularly negative magazine profile was about to be indicted. But people still underestimate how batshit-crazy Palin is. This guy's saying she really resigned on something like a whim--just tired of this job and convinced that the current Republican party can't advance her career--and no one in the Republican party or among even very close advisors were consulted or warned. What they're saying now is if she has any political ambitions, she knows she needs to get the fuck out of Alaska because the entire Republican party there has, understandably, turned against her. But a lot of the national Republicans hate her, too. The scary thing is that she's made noise before about going on a campaign against the moral corruption among Republicans--the governors with mistresses thing--and anybody who really made that an issue might have serious popular appeal. The most serious charge documented in the Vanity Fair piece, after all, is just that everyone who works with her comes away thinking she's totally nuts--and that's hardly a liability in electoral politics.

tomkendall said...

Su'p! Jerk was great. Meeting everyone was great. Good times.

Anyone know where i can get a copy of the Kathy Acker Documentary that got made a little while ago? Ive talked about it before on here, like maybe a year ago?, but i still can't find a copy.

I got the weekend off...going to a bbq then a house party and ive got all of tomorrow to write if my brain is sufficiently calibrated that way. I hope it is.
Im well excited by writing at the moment WOWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

xxx

winter rates said...

you-x-

nice. easy to forget how much lingo gets dropped in this joint. yr lucky you have yr bro to discuss the proceedings with in meatspace, daily.

hey D-
up early, watching Williams v. Williams, suppossed to be 95 today, on the 4th... gonna do my best to avoid the heat i suppose, maybe get some writings done and then off to the americana activities of booze, bbq and explosions in the sky.

wv: dedahses

dead asses is a very DC wordver...

Bernard Welt said...

You-X: Future generations thank you for producing this invaluable guide.

DavidEhrenstein said...

It's Gloria's Birthday

Marcus Whale said...

Dennis! amazing fun with amt last week (among other people), that album we made sounds totally evil, i'm sure he'll show it to you. We essentially just ate heaps of sour lollies then went nuts. The cover art he's working on is way subversive too, its a little kid looking away from the camera in cute wrestling uniform. Thanks for throwing the link out for that story a week ago, i'm really thrilled you enjoyed it.

Oh, i thought i might add i've been writing some fiction for which the centre character is always Cole Mohr, the male model. It's really fun - does my head in, kind of reminds me of the whole Alex James thing. Hope the jerks aren't jerky at jerk. (I'm sorry about that one). Marcus.

mark said...

Phoner, eh? Reminds me of the word “boner,” which is such an ugly, crude and inaccurate word, and yet curiously apt.

Thanks for commenting on the photos, DC. I definitely want to do more nude model shoots, as I got really energized by that one. Unfortunately, I don’t have a studio to use anymore for a few months, so it makes it hard. Also, I tried to apply to the Model Mayhem website so that I could meet new models, and I got denied! (I’m shocked, frankly, considering all the crap they have on there.) I guess they sussed out that I am not really a fashion photographer and have no interest in making conventional girlie pictures.

Oh, well, I guess I’ll have to get my models some other way. Do any of you DC’ers in the SF Bay Area have the nude modeling bug? I prefer young women, but I am willing to work with men, TS, anything. We can shoot wherever you feel most comfortable, indoors, outdoors, at home, -- you name it.

WV: asynxeri

Oscar B. said...

Super interesting day!

Dennis, I'm glad you had a good time here in London, despite the heat ( I'm melting).
I wish we could have spent more time together, but I know it's been a busy time for you. Next time.
Jerk was breathtaking, Jonathan was absolutely amazing. It was so mind-blowing that it took me a while to 'digest' it, and the more I think about all the aspects of it, the more I find it interesting. Well, well done,all of you.

It was also a lot of fun to hang out with the whole bunch: Kier, Rigby ( I want that coat), Marc, Wold and Tom.

I know it's probably high time I stopped talking about MJ, but I still haven't said that I'm gonna do a performance about him. Well, the thing is, when I was a big fan of his, I used to dance on his music all the time, of course, and practice his 'moves'. So much so that I became rather good at it, it seems. Some course mates of mine and me have organized this performance night next week, and the asked me if I could impersonate Michael Jackson. And I accepted, of course. Ahah, it's gonna be fun, if nothing else.
If it's not too embarrassing, I'll post pictures or even a video.
Gosh, it's like going back to when I was 13...very strange.

anyway, talk soon

XOscarB

Pisycaca said...

you-x,

This is such an adorable day! It's funny how we all incorporate these words and expressions from DC's to our daily conversations. I do even when I talk to friends of mine who don't visit the blog. It's one of the many lovely things you get from being a regular here.

Dennis,

Great to see you again! I'm glad you're enjoying London and Jerk's gone so well.
And it's also super great to read you'll have more free time! Can't really wait for our Paris trip.

Xet bought me "Infinite jest" the other day and I started reading it yesterday. I'm very interested but I also find it quite hard to read. I just hope it's the right time cause I don't wanna drop it.

Love,

M.

Empty Frame said...

Hey, Dennis.... Jim from Brighton/Berlin here, we had an all-too-brief chat on "Jerk"'s opening night Wed 1st. You sent me some awesome footage way back in '98 for an artsy club night I used to program called That Stupid Club? Ex-boyfriends lipsynching in songbooths; family Xmas footage from '76; last but by no means least, the moment the by-now-a-ghost Michael Jackson's hair caught fire in a Pepsi ad. Happy days, and thanks again. For what it's worth, Mark E. Smith was weirdly excited by the MJ footage.... and he's not an easy man to excite...
A thrill to meet you man ... I hope to get to Paris while you're there. And I'll do all I can to create some opportunities for you to come over to Berlin when I'm over there again - it's crazy you haven't been, I know for sure you have many admirers there. Not least, me.

Dan said...

Sweaty Dennis, hope the shows and reading went swimmingly.

The Weak Species Outfest screening on 7/17 is selling fast - if there are folks you'd like to see the film, let 'em know - want to make sure everyone gets a seat.

More reviews on the film's website - will be interesting to see if we get any LA press..

As always, thanks for everything,
Dan

SYpHA_69 said...
This post has been removed by the author.
SYpHA_69 said...

Cool day, you-x. If Dennis ever compiles a book made up of blog entries this would make a great introduction. I wish I had more people in my real life I could talk to about DC's, but it's not to be. Sometimes I tell my younger brothers about something or other that I read on here, but they aren't really interested as none of them are really into things such as literature, the arts, and so on. Man, it boggles my mind when I think about all of the cool people and friendships that I've made on here over the years, and how said friendships have extended outside of the blog, to e-mail, Facebook, and so on... I kind of miss the "little comments" section also, which were utilized much more in the earliest days of the blog (I also seem to recall a failed experiment in which at one point Dennis tried to do away with the ps by answering each person individually in the comments section, but he abandoned that after about a day or so). Today also made me think about how I tend to follow a pattern when I post comments on here, in that first I usually make some kind of a comment on the day at hand, followed by some kind of reply or question to Dennis, followed by remarks directed to stuff said in the comments section themselves. In fact, I have a feeling that this very comment will follow that pattern which I have just outlined.

So, moving on... yeah, Dennis, I guess I'll just keep plugging away with "Grimoire" and hope something works out. But I'm not trying to let it distract me too much from my current projects.

Misanthrope said...

You-x, Ha, that was fun. And the pics of you two were good too.

Sypha, Tell me about it. I mention DC's to my non-virtual friends and they just roll their eyes...

Dennis, It is a good thing. No need to apologize. Whine away. God knows I whine to you enough...

Well, Fox News, like CNN and MSNBC, runs several hours of straight, 'this happened today/that happened' today reporting during the late morning/afternoon/early evening with little slant or bias. It's the evening shows on all 3 networks that are pretty much all opinion and they all pretty much admit that. Though, in my opinion, O'Reilly's the only one who almost all the time presents both/all sides of an issue, even if he does tend to take the conservative view himself. You'd be surprised how liberal he is on some things and how many times he disagrees with Rove and Coulter and people like that on a variety of issues.

The thing that bothers me most about these shows, including O'Reilly's, is how the hosts have made themselves self-appointed arbiters of morality. I'd include Stewart and Colbert in there too. I suppose it depends whether or not you agree with the host's positions in regards to how you feel about their moral arbitration, but the whole business makes me suspicious. Like O'Reilly's "we're looking out for you" really bugs me. Fuck, Bill, I don't need you to look out for me. Or any of the others for that matter.

Okay, a little Michael Jackson thing here: have you seen his oldest son? Is it me or is he, I don't know, beautiful? In an almost angelic/otherworldly sort of way? I've seen a couple non-masked pics of him now that he's older (12, I think) and I'm like, whoa, how does anybody get to be that pretty? (Obviously by not having MJ's genes in him...hehe.)

JW Veldhoen said...

Ride a white swan is a good example, highly syncopated, the sound in the foreground, Bolan's voice, it agitates. Compare to how that syncopation with Bowie/Eno or Scott Walker reaches higher revs, more flutter, narcotization. I can even stand some of Bowie's drum and bass, and I love Suicide... This guitarist (like most I've met), does not... I'm only an ok drummer with my hands so I'm going to do the drum parts using a sequencer. I had this joke about "a capella techno" once, but now I'm on to using recorders to get samples of beat box and live drumming. I wish I had an orchestra, timpani's like Phil Spector.

T-Rex aren't really fucking funky, either, I mean. I want to hear Al Green, not some nasally cockney skeleton, or I'll take Bill Medley.

I have a theory that guitarist/singers end up trying to sound like their guitars. They're usually short guys with a complex about it, and I don't like tenors, I like waving basses, or hard driving falsetto. I mean, if you are going to sing, give it to me, for Christs sake. And if you do sing in a higher register, I need to hear a croak in the voice, scratch and damage. I mean, that's how I sound from all the smoke and drink, and standing around waiting for it to get loud again, and I want to hear it, too.

I approach music with very little in the way of biography, and only a bit of theory. One of the problems working with anybody is that we inevitably get hung up on how I want things to sound just the way that I want them to sound and I can't communicate it, or they think my ideas are weird because they haven't heard anything like them before. Structures and linkages notwithstanding, the impact of blockage is slowness. Barriers suck.

Independence day. I don't want to see any fireworks. I'm a little scared of something bad happening, I don't know why.

JW Veldhoen said...

Reached 6666 emails in my inbox today.

JW Veldhoen said...

The guitarist sounds sufficiently Cobain-y for us to do duets. I'd like to find a girl for us to sing with.

JW Veldhoen said...

AND I want fucking HOOKS. Stripper pole music, like Kayne meets Aerosmith meets Nirvana meets 2 Live Crew meets RTX meets Lee Hazelwood.

Fucking hard to do!

JW Veldhoen said...

Lil' Wayne and I smoke a j after, you know? In the sun and shit?

JW Veldhoen said...

Still pending.

Elton John rocks.s.

wf: hersol

Flit said...

You-X , Cool day, I particularly enjoyed the accompanying photographs.
I never thought of using the search blog feature.

Flit said...

JW? Elton... Eeegaad! 'Crocodile Rock' is one of most annoying songs of all time, to me.

SYpHA_69 said...

Wait, there's a search blog feature? News to me...

Misa, haven't you heard, Bill O'Reilly doesn't just look out for you, he's also a culture warrior. Whatever the fuck THAT means.

DavidEhrenstein said...

Latest FaBlog: Obama To The Uninsured -- "Fuck You!"

JoeM said...

Another interesting off the wall Day. It's funny how the photos seemed part of it too, sort of interestingly varied, like you could make a story from them. And I'm also looking for this 'Find' box...

The wife of the UK Prime Minister was on our big Gay Pride match today. At the front. Over to you Michelle...

(Funny how Obama uses religion as his excuse not to support gay marriage, yet our PM Brown is a dour Scottish Presbyterian - all fire and brimstone that lot - and Blair is a born again Catholic, yet they don't have a problem with it. They've even made it illegal for Catholics to refuse to deal with gay adoption).

JW I don't know what Bolan/T.Rex you've heard but there's lots of great stuff out there. I was 14 when they were big in the UK so they were my 'Beatles' or - well, there isn't an equivalent now days.

This is nice, from same era as Ride a White Swan:

Diamond Meadows

Reminds me that the three worst pop deaths for me were all artists who were on the brink of comebacks - MJ obviously (and I think the video from two days before he died shows he could have done those concert). Also Lennon and Bolan - both having emerged from what Lennon called his 'Fat Elvis period'. The last record was actually called Starting Over.

David Saa, what you said on my FB page had disappeared by the time I got home, but there was an FB copy on email. It's so great what Michael Jackson did for your sister.I'm sure there are a lot of those stories nobody's heard about. I hope you go back on Facebook and continue your blog.

For the MJ sneerers, I dare you to watch and listen to this and not feel...well, emotional.

Gone too Soon

Flit said...

Yikes, I think we can all agree that there is no such thing as 'News' on American tv. Objectivity is not even a question, just silly entertainment. The thing that cracks me up is when O'Reilly complains that us dope smokin young-uns turn to the net instead of his dog and pony show. Bill your old... real old and not in a good way

WV. supson

no more teenagekicks said...

thanks, you-x -- so good, and how true that the jargon here creeps into one's brick and mortar life. it's sort of weird when dc's comes up w/friends who don't frequent the site -- they get that this place is significant for me, but also, they don't. i guess because as closely as pretty much everyone i know follows blogs, there's no place that exists that's quite like this, I think (that's probably not true -- like, there's probably a japanese version of this that's so chic and rad it will curl and then with zero hesitation re-straighten yr hair).

in other news: best youtube comment of the day:

"you got demon raped XD"

youtube comments! such a weird subgenre of internet comments! the glee w/which people discuss komodo dragons, and whether they'd win a fight with a lion! and of course demon rape!

Misanthrope said...

Sypha, I hate the culture warrior shit too. Frankly, I watch O'Reilly's show only about a couple times a month, if that. And that's only when I catch it at 5am, usually. Shit, at 8pm, I'm usually asleep - and about to wake up, having slept the day away - or playing nintendo.

Joe, Obama wants the votes, that's all. And don't forget who his pastor was for over 20 years. That had to influence him a bit. But yeah, it's a convenient way to help ensure the black vote (as if he didn't already have it in his pocket) and all those swing/disgruntled-moderate-repub votes.

I thought MJ looked horrible in those rehearsal tapes. Insanely thin. And not really moving that well - at least by the standard he set so many years ago. It wouldn't surprise me if he was taking stuff to wake himself up and get him going and at night taking stuff to put himself out, as Elvis used to do, which would account for his energy. But that's speculation on my part, so it's really not fair. Though it kind of makes sense.

JoeM said...

Well it seems to be fairly well established that MJ was on uppers and downers. But if he wasn't moving as we've seen before - well it was a rehearsal. And all that rubbish about him not being able to sing was disproved - the promoter made a point of saying he wasn't miming.

Also, if he's been on drugs for years, he did all those other tours using them as well. And being 50 is nothing - Madonna does year long tours dancing all over the place. Even Mick Jagger, who's a hundred and fifty can do it.

I think they might find it was just one dose too many, could have happened anytime.

Or not.

Still not weeping?:

People Say I'm Strange That Way

Misanthrope said...

Oh, I'm pretty sure it was a one-time fuck-up, from what I've seen and heard. And sure, he could've probably done those shows. But I still think he looked awful in that video, not the dancing and singing so much as his face and physique. He looked ill to me.

DavidEhrenstein said...

My eyes are dry, Joe.

DavidEhrenstein said...

You want tears? HERE!

JoeM said...

I knew you were a lost cause David...

Let's cheer ourselves up - Palin's in trouble! There's definitely something fishy going on.

Also the ex son in law is 'writing' a Tell All book.

The Trig is mine
The doggone Trig is mine

SYpHA_69 said...

Hell, when I saw Madonna live last year, she wasn't just dancing all night, she was even jumping rope in time to the music!

david said...

David E - The relative brevity of the Stark books reminds me of Maigret but the resemblance ends there. Westlake created in Parker a sociopath-like criminal who's compelling to read about, even though he lacks the ambiguity of Tom Ripley and the backstory of, well, anybody.

Dan said...

tomkendall,
The Kathy Acker doc is playing in a few of the same festivals as Weak Species this summer - it may not have distribution yet. But the filmmakers' contact info should be available from Frameline or from Outfest.
Dan

Bernard Welt said...

Well, after all I said about not knowing any politicians, I just came home from partying with the Secretaries of the Interior and Energy. In my defense, though:
1) The fireworks were awesome.
2) They had free hot dogs
3) There was sheet cake!!

DavidEhrenstein said...

Yes. Stark is a kind of minimalist Highsmith.

SYpHA_69 said...

Actually Dennis, I just now recall something I've been meaning to ask you. I haven't gotten my hands on a copy of "All Ears" yet (one of these days) but tonight I found out that in your obit for William S. Burroughs you mention how his final trilogy was ghostwritten... could you (or possibly someone who has the obit in question) summarize the details for me? I'm re-reading that trilogy now (among other things) and trying to get more information about the creation of those books, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information out there. Thanks...

math t said...

hey! first Derek your day was unbelievably good and i'm seeking out The Show That Smells on my next day off [wed]. just wow. thanks so much for such an awesome day.

you-x very interesting and cool. i don't talk to any blog readers as regularly as you must talk to your brother, so when i talk about this place i usually opt for the eternal California manner of speech.. 'so Dennis was like.. and then Flit was like.. then nb was like.. ' surprising to me that you perceive the slave days as escort days, ontologically you don't pay a slave by the hour.. but, i will grant you, those kids are hustlers in that they hustle their image. so yea, thank you for the day and the pictures of you and panda?.

Dennis hey man, glad you're safely back in Paris. thank you also for the Derek day.

i had a really weird experience w the lsd at the concert. it made me so, so, so tired. immediately when it hit i wanted to lay down and go to sleep. it was in a good way but hardly conducive to a concert. also i had almost no hallucinations, just a super strong body feeling that was most like mdma or methyloneif anything, except i wanted to go right to sleep. it was amazing, like a better heroin; it didn't feel like acid, although since it was on blotter paper it probably was. navigating the way out of the park, woah. eventually ended up home w Steven watching blue by kieslowski, daft punk's inter5tella anime thing, persepolis, and a bunch of other random reasonably cool shit [sin city, franz ferdinand videos etc]. so it was a really nice break from work, definitely flew by.

hope your time in London was just as killer. can't wait to see the beautiful pictures i know you took. i sent you a minor edit request via email. i raise my glass to toast all your recent accomplishments.

love, math+

JW Veldhoen said...

Ryan White was gross looking, he deserved to die.

wf: blesse

Oscar B. said...

Misanthrope, yes, Michael's oldest son is beautiful! I was really surprised when I first saw him...

Kiddiepunk said...

i don't know if it's the jetlag, but today's post is fucking hilarious. nice job, you-x.

Jesse Hudson said...

Here's my "celebrity" death list for this week. Maybe these people will die??
1. Bill O'Reilly (something very painful)
2. Jonas Bros. (all three. Maybe a freak plane accident or something?? Or a complication with their purity rings.)
3. Miley Cyrus (murdered by Radiohead fans)
4. Rush Limbaud (drug overdose, of course)
5. Tom Cruise (accidental death occurs while trying to return to the mother planet)

Of course, the only problem with these people dying is that everyone will suddenly forget what made them so gross and the media will be constipated with desperate attempts to make them seem like some kind of martyrs. Sound familiar?

tomkendall said...

Cheeerrrsss Dan. Will check that out.

word verification: prowee

Zowee.

Bacteriaburger said...

You-x, this was great!

alan said...

You-x, Hey, buddy. By coincidence I dreamed last night that I read about someone named Alan in the newspaper who looked just like me. He was fleeing police but I wanted to get in touch with him because, by my dream-logic, he was someone I could talk to about what it's like being Alan. When I got up I decided it was about regretting not having a brother I'm close to. Then I read your lovely piece about, among other things, brotherhood. I can see you really cherish that relationship, and you should. Great pics of you guys, too.

Dennis, That Times piece is rather arm's length but I like the last line on your preoccupation with "the need for connection--even if experienced at the level of unspeakable yet intimate violence." That made me think the writer gets you. Do let us know us if you see any interesting reactions elsewhere. I know you don't like to focus on yourself here. Thanks about the guest post, by the way.

DavidEhrenstein said...

"the promoter made a point of saying he wasn't miming."


And you believed him.

Flit said...

math t, Yesterday I googled my name in images and I came upon your fabulous web page. Thanks for linking me on your site, thats very cool.
Big smile

JoeM said...

Well when they release the full video of the rehearsals there will be lots of opportunities to see if he's miming.

It's such a common human reaction to overpraise people just after they've died. I'm amazed that people are still surprised. Not just the famous, every time a teenager is killed or a soldier in Iraq, we are told they were ultra popular, rescued kittens from trees etc. But with the famous it's not long before they're vilified ten times more than they were praised - Lennon, Elvis etc. Don't worry MJ haters,there will soon be a cascade of books from family, 'friends', staff etc on the way.

Bugger - Federer has just won Wimbledon. Just retire now Fed.

The match lasted over four hours. Poor Woody Allen was there from the start with Soon Yi. Probably melted.

DavidEhrenstein said...

Joe, I would be very surprised if any new "tell-all" jackson tome has any information that I < and a great many other people don't already know. He was aparentally-empowered child molester who so hated being balck that he died his skin and tried to pass off three test tube babies concieved with nary a drop of his semen as his won children.

JoeM said...

Yes but not having new information hasn't stopped the avalanche of articles,blogs,tv programs, we've had in the last 10 days.

Next week on UK TV - Michael Jackson's Last Days:What Really Happened. Really, Channel Four, Sunday 9PM.

I mean look at even the youngest Dead Celebs like Kurt Cobain, River phoenix, and the industries that grew up around them.

erik said...

What a great day!!!

I like this meta-posts things, when someone takes the blog as a subject (in relation to himself or others).

Nice pics too.

squeaky said...

You-X: That back porch looks nice. This post feels like a back porch (thanks to you). Familiar but still maybe we can point at things that we forgot or hadn't noticed before: caterpillar ... weird crack in the pavement. Things we had sort of forgotten: old birthday party stain.

Hey Dennis: it's been hot here too. Also, I'm late to say this but thank you and Derek for the post about his novel. I've been curious ever since the cover appeared up in the corner. Can't wait to step inside a bookstore in San Francisco and pick that up, as well as many others. Hold them in my hand. Leaf through them. Buy some.
Amazon purchases just are so lackluster.

erik said...

dennis

strange but only recently am I beginning to feel or getting the feeling of being in a relationship!

because the first idea was to live together but as that was impossible in our case to live together without getting into a relationship of some sort we decided to live together as a couple, almost rationally! but our feelings were perhaps not yet ready for this change of life, had to adapt to it. anyway that how it works. you cannot decide to have feelings at a certain time or place. if you're not in a arranged marriage situatuion anyway. which could it look to others perhaps. I married myself off! hahaha. we decided to have relationship from a certain date, (we did a countdown to it hahaha) but well, feelings don't do that, they just come and go when they want. so sometimes being together is nice sometimes it isn't, the bad sides do not weigh much against the good things about it. que sera sera etcetra etcetra. I got some sunburn from the beach today. you ever go to the beach?

things that are difficult is things like the house which is basically my friends house, which slowly turns a bit my way too, but still isn't. you know, my former appartement was so much my very specific room, almost a private museum, it was sooo adjoun that no one else could live there but me, with all those bric-a-brac around, the room of some hyper-esthetic child, a 12-year old dandy perhaps. it was an old slightly derelict building but somhowe it fitted my personality which what it alt least reflected. but well in this house it has to deal with other stuff that is not mine (and in some cases very opposed to mine, not in a bad way, like bronze nude studies that my friend who is a sculptor in his spare time, puts around the house, but also his vast dick bruna collection). so the interior is still in progress.

so yeah it takes time, as most things. it is not so strange perhaps. my head is burning from the sun, I need some cool-off.

how cute is panda?.?

uli said...

you-x, this was a very,very nice feature! yes, a pleasure to read.

Oliver, i understand totally what you mean. you are right. But I am not sure if everything in Black Metal is just fiction... it is more like "half-baked and poorly conceived theories" from "aggressive nerds". well i dont know. I listen to Burzum either! sometimes.

I just read that Michael Jackson will be buried without his brain. Take care.

Bernard Welt said...

Just now at the gym I overheard this conversation as I was walking down the hall:

Hunky dad: Do you remember that?
Little boy: I can remember everything now. I changed my brain.

Wolf said...

really fun day YouX.. and PANDA, you're so goddamn cute, and my lover agrees.

dennis.. man, awesome to see you, as per usual..
i'm a bit zoned out but Jerk blew my mind and i'll write more about it in a bit, and Jonathan is such an incredible performer.. you and him and giselle are such a brilliant team.. going to the south of france for a week in tuesday, much-deserved/needed holidays..

KIER
!!! are you back yet? so beyond awesome to meet you comrade.. you rock AND you're gorgeous. goddamn.

and RIGBY i have compromising material so you'd better shut the fuck up.. and Tender is about to flay you alive if you criticize my shoes or other part of my person again, watch out you don't wanna fuck with him believe me fuckah..

winter rates said...
This post has been removed by the author.
tender prey said...

You-x... just a delightful day on every level, I can't say more.
?Panda - you bring to mind a fresh faced and beautiful version of a Ramone... ie as cool as fuck.

Dennis - hey, did you find your phone in the end?
It was a joy to see you again on Wednesday and great to experience Jerk a second time. I keep thinking about the different levels of imagination, reality and representation in the piece, and how they're played across so deftly with such a bare minimum of resources - voice, text, one performer, puppets, a simple sound recording. Jonathan's ability to inhabit and keep control of multiple persona simultaneously was again breathtaking. The piece is so simple but so complex.

Also I was struck by the example which came out in the conversation afterwards of the body as ruin... as exemplifying what could be termed romantic in your work. I don't know, perhaps this has been mentioned a lot before and I haven't noticed it, but it really crystallised something for me in terms of thinking not only about your work, but in a broader sense about why physical beauty is disturbing / fascinating... enmeshed in a dialectic between order/perfection and ruin, destruction and decay. Giselle describing your collaboration as like "Len Riefenstahl meets... (I can't remember the example she gave)" was also striking.
I'm trying to think how this might inflect in some way on the discussion the other day about experimental artists' use of Nazi references or imagery - but I need to meditate on it a bit.

Kier, Tom Kendall and John (if you're reading) was great to meet you and hang out, real pleasure and honor to have you round at the studio... Kier, I'll say again how much I loved your book with Richard Hell. Oscar B, great to see you as always...

and Riggers - yeah... you better watch out!... no, Wolf's only joking of course, you know I'm a gentle soul and I love you but hmmm come to think of it... I could inflict carnage with a sharp pencil as easily as make beautiful drawings of it couldn't I? This Mike Kelley text springs to mind where a drawing implement is inserted in someone's rectum (sideways you understand, distending it in a very grotesque and uncomfortable way, and then rotated if memory serve's correct), but hang on a minute, you'd LOVE that! Trust me though, I'll think of SOMETHING you rascal xx

Jesse Hudson said...

You-X: I just wanted to let you know that i think that this day is all caps AMAZING!!! Truly charming and a great study of what (I believe) this blog is about. Although I can't say that terms used on the blog have become a part of my everyday life, the people certainly have. It always fascinates me to hear what the people on this blog are like in real life. In other words, everyone here are celebrities to me. And this is certainly the best community on the whole fucking internet!
Thank you for such an immensely charming day!!

rigby said...

brilliantbrilliant day you-x.. i love the fact that words here spill out

fuckinghell kier soooo amazing to meet you
that actress we couldn't remember
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001363/

i'm really pissed my mates didn't get to see the show.. i thought jonothan was on top form.. fucking gorgeous.. that weirdo with the questions (and new sexy haaircut) pulled it of brilliantly.. giselle even got a word in edgewise

oscar B.. seriously?! why didn't you pull out the moves at the club.. can i come and see you do it please pleasssssse

dc.. it seems you don't care too much for mj but the scene in Thriller where he's excitedly eating popcorn while horror is on screen.. well that is you

wolves tender - you both have the ugliest feet.. i win on that one.. next we'll do belly buttons.. mine is gorgeous

Chilly Jay Chill said...

Nice day, You-X. Cool to see DC's lingo in operation.

Wonderful Derek McCormack day as well. His prose even for the post was immaculate. The book is on my to-buy list.

Dennis - thanks in advance for anything you're able to find out about Stephen O'Malley and if he has time to write a few sentences/answer some questions for Destination: Out. But no pressure if it proves a hassle.

The Owen Land film I mentioned before is including in that new(ish) Treasures of the American Avant Guard set with films by Wallace Berman, Cornell, Brakhage, Warhol, Marie Menkin, Hollis Frampton, etc, etc. It's the best DVD I've seen this year, easy.

Hope you're doing well. Will you be able to dive back into the novel or more travels in the offing?

rigby said...

oh and marc i did draw you a heart
so i'm not all bad..

speaking of witch.. don't look..

tears moist a speed line
wound silencing the touch
paper friends
so silence
as gigantic as it sounds
feeding us

Bernard Welt said...

CJ Chill: Thanks for mentioning the Avant-Garde DVD, which I've just looked up and am getting for my college library. Hadn't seen it before.

steevee said...

My editor at GAY CITY NEWS says he'll mail my letter of assignment to the Toronto Film Festival tomorow. I'm afraid it may be too late for their deadline, but I really hope I can go this year.

Also, I'm seeing BRUNO tomorrow. Not sure what to expect.

October said...

You-X/Joseph Marcure- I love and greatly appreciate this post man, now I know so much more, I feel more connected.

Dennis- Yeah man, thank you, I feel like I should just try to tough through it, even though it does feel good to talk about it, especially with someone who understands. I'll make it. And You're Welcome Dennis, next stop the next half of The Dream Police! And the same to you man, glad to hear about your back as well. Hope the JE went well.

Alan- Hey man, I haven't talked to you in a REAL while, how's it been?

Tomkendall- "Pavement"

postitbreakup said...

DENNIS,
I miss you. I remember on your other website when you had the poll and I voted for you to have your blog. And then I could talk to you and you would actually respond. Like a real author would respond to me, which is amazing anyway but especially when it's My Loose Thread. I hope your trip went well and you're feeling better and everything. Thank you for doing the blog for so long and so nicely. I wish I could give back something more than my ugly photoshopped picture. I saw it on my computer the other day and thought of the person it was supposed to depict. Well anyway, hope all is well, have a good week.

Pascal said...

Thanks for this, You-X, 'specially re. wordver and the other. I had no idea, although, of course, both have impacted on my DC bloglife in their own ways.